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June 6, 2019
Question

Massachusetts Taxable IRA distributions

  • June 6, 2019
  • 5 replies
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My 2015 federally taxable IRA distribution is $X.  Last year, 2014 was my first distribution of $Y.    What do I put for "Other Contributions Previously Taxed by Mass?  And what do I put for Total distribution received in previous years?     The MA refund in progress was irrationally high when I put $Y for previous years.

5 replies

ScruffyCurmudgeon
June 6, 2019

An explanation of whether or not IRA distributions are taxable in Massachusetts:

Massachusetts does not recognize the deductibility of contributions that you make when you put money into an IRA and as a result, in the year of the contribution, while you are not then taxed by the Federal government, you do have to pay tax on the earnings to Massachusetts.  The monies you contribute over the years sum up to what is known, in this case, as the Basis in your IRA.  Think of it another way, it is the invested principal.

When you have distributions from the IRA, all of the monies withdrawn are liable to Federal taxation.  However, Massachusetts views the monies being withdrawn as first being your Basis or Principal, and until you have withdrawn the entire amount of Basis that you contributed, you are not liable for Massachusetts tax on the IRA distributions, only when you "start" withdrawing earnings - meaning what is left after you have deducted all the money you contributed in.

So, you need to have a record of how much you contributed into the IRA in order to be able to answer the questions of how much of the IRA distribution was previously taxed.  IF, as an example, you have been taking distributions for some number of years, it is likely that you will have finally reached the point where none of the distribution should be excluded; on the other hand, in the first year or first years, all or most of the distribution is likely to be only Basis or principal and not subject to Massachusetts taxation.

See the image for an example where the total contributions made over the years was $100,000 and in prior years you would have distributed $65,000, thus the total now would come to $70,500 and still not have exhausted the principal so none of this year's distribution should be taxable in Massachusetts.

See second image showing the actual MA Form 1 Schedule X and the exclusion of the IRA distribution from tax.

If this posted response is useful to you, please click on the upraised hand in the lower left of this post. Thank you. Scruffy Curmudgeon--PFFM/ IAFF, retired FireFighter/Paramedic - Locals 718/30, Veteran USAR O3 AIS/ASA '65-'67 NOT INTUIT EMPLOYEE USAR 64-67 AIS/ASA MOS 9301 - O3 - Just donating my time**Say Thanks by clicking the thumb icon in the lower left corner -it means nothing but makes those than answer feel wanted.
June 6, 2019
Where do I find this record of how much I put in and Mass taxed at the time, especially if it included several  Rollover 401Ks with a company match?
ScruffyCurmudgeon
June 6, 2019
  • tomandjerry  [response to 3 year old second question as follows]
  • "Thanks.  Your answer makes perfect sense.  But I have a couple of additional follow-on questions.  (1)  Does MA have any sort of Required Minimum Distribution requirement like the FEDs do (at age 70 1/2)?  I suspect not since  MA already collected tax on the amounts put into your IRA(2) How does MA treat distributions that are taken as QCD and sent directly to a non-profit.  Does MA require that these be included as income (to the extent that they exceed the IRA basis)?"
    1. MA DOR having not taxed any contributions to a Traditional IRA does not have an RMD, and does not assess tax on any of the contributions but does assess tax on earnings received within the IRA when those earnings are distributed.  Note MA DOR assumes that distributions are first the previous contributions and only when those are fully paid out, the remaining distributions are assessed as taxable earnings.

    2. MA follows the Federal rules on QCD.  However, again, note that if the funds in whole or in part were original contributions, those funds were taxed at time of earning and are not taxed in any case on distribution.  See the above note on timing sequence, as it may be the case that a QCD where funds paid over to the charity are wholly original contributions leaving the balance in the IRA as taxable earnings.


    If this posted response is useful to you, please click on the upraised hand in the lower left of this post. Thank you. Scruffy Curmudgeon--PFFM/ IAFF, retired FireFighter/Paramedic - Locals 718/30, Veteran USAR O3 AIS/ASA '65-'67 NOT INTUIT EMPLOYEE USAR 64-67 AIS/ASA MOS 9301 - O3 - Just donating my time**Say Thanks by clicking the thumb icon in the lower left corner -it means nothing but makes those than answer feel wanted.
    ScruffyCurmudgeon
    June 6, 2019

    In response to your most recent questions

    Re: First dollars out are basis, and again for clarity, we are discussing the Massachusetts DOR assessment of taxes on withdrawals from an IRA:

    "The amount of taxable IRA distributions for your Massachusetts tax return is the amount of conventional IRA distributions you received during 2018 minus any IRA plan contributions you made to the account, unless those IRA contributions have already reduced the amount of taxable IRA distributions on a previous tax return, and minus any qualified charitable IRA distributions you received in 2018 that are included in the distribution. "

    To reiterate, Massachusetts takes the position that distributions from an IRA are first the contributions made that were already taxed by Massachusetts (the "basis") and only when exhausted are the remaining distributions deemed to have been from accumulated previously untaxed income.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hypothetical example is that exactly- a pastiche of financial data built up to answer various questions, and in fact the taxpayer's name was: Bobbie Maygun  
    I erroneously uploaded the complete hypo tax file which is unreadable but here instead is the PDF.
    If this posted response is useful to you, please click on the upraised hand in the lower left of this post. Thank you. Scruffy Curmudgeon--PFFM/ IAFF, retired FireFighter/Paramedic - Locals 718/30, Veteran USAR O3 AIS/ASA '65-'67 NOT INTUIT EMPLOYEE USAR 64-67 AIS/ASA MOS 9301 - O3 - Just donating my time**Say Thanks by clicking the thumb icon in the lower left corner -it means nothing but makes those than answer feel wanted.
    June 6, 2019
    @Scruffy_Curmudgeon
    Thanks again!  I now totally understand how MA handles these distributions.
    ScruffyCurmudgeon
    June 6, 2019

    @BruceR

    Correct:  Massachusetts adopts the same principal as does the IRS that distributions from a deferred income IRA which contains both previously taxed principal ("basis") and accumulated untaxed income generated cause the basis to be withdrawn first so that only when the basis is exhausted do successive withdrawal recognize the untaxed income.

    As to the Rollover IRA with the proceeds of the terminated §401(k) deferred income - please note that a §401(k) plan usually has two separate accounts, with one being your already taxed contributions and a second with employer-matched untaxed (as yet) contributions.  It is helpful to keep the two accounts separate so that accounting for what is and what is not subject to tax liability is simple, if not then you must maintain an accounting record to properly reflect the basis.  Assuming that you are only discussing your untaxed contributions to the §401K plan [NOTE: this applies at both Federal and Mass. level] , it would be best if you could segregate those untaxed principal contributions and their earnings. Otherwise you will have to and must continue to maintain an accounting that recognizes this separate basis of untaxed funds.

    So see the attached PDF which presents a hypothetical Form 1099-R (since I ahve no idea what yours looks like), and then the Massachusetts relevant pages of interview and the Form 1 Schedule X.  Clearly, the easiest way to address this is to use Forms Mode when you use the Desktop Product instead of the online service. 

    [comment: essentially none of the "superuser" volunteers here would think of using the online service!  Forms Mode is often critical and is found in the Desktop "CD Software"]  
    To switch from online to desktop:
    https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/1901476-how-do-i-switch-from-turbotax-online-to-the-turbotax-softw...

    Frankly, I never use online and am not sure that you can make the manual entries into Schedule X that are required in your particular and unusual circumstance.  

    Your $20,000 distribution needs to be manually adjusted either in the interview in the screen shown, or else at the Schedule X level.

    Actually, Massachusetts assumes that in the usual case, if you do a Roth Conversion from a deferred income acount of any type, MA assumes until you indicate otherwise that the Federal fully taxable portion is mirrored at the state level.  This is one very good reason to segregate the funds between taxed (basis) and untaxed.  So, going forward, assuming you make no attempt to do a segregation of funds [remembering that if an account has both basis and non-basis it is the basis that first moves out] you will annually have to make a manual adjustment, but again remembering that MASS follows the  convention of first funds out are basis.
    If this posted response is useful to you, please click on the upraised hand in the lower left of this post. Thank you. Scruffy Curmudgeon--PFFM/ IAFF, retired FireFighter/Paramedic - Locals 718/30, Veteran USAR O3 AIS/ASA '65-'67 NOT INTUIT EMPLOYEE USAR 64-67 AIS/ASA MOS 9301 - O3 - Just donating my time**Say Thanks by clicking the thumb icon in the lower left corner -it means nothing but makes those than answer feel wanted.
    June 6, 2019
    @Scruffy_Curmudgeon
    Thank you for your answer!
    First and most important, please delete the "_2018_TTax_Hypo_Form_1040.tax2018" file that you attached to your answer.  It looks like it contains someone's personal information.

    REPLY- Actually it is a pastiche of various pieces built over time to respond to questions - not any one real person or persons.
    February 26, 2023

    If I have a $20,000 RMD for 2022, however, I had $5000 directed to a QCD.  Why then does the TurboTax Massachusetts page say I received the whole $20,000?  Am I paying Mass. tax on the whole RMD, rather than just the $15,000 I actually received?

    JohnB5677
    February 27, 2023

    Massachusetts taxpayers can not currently (2022) claim a deduction for Qualifed Charitable Contributions; however, they will be able to claim a state income tax deduction for charitable donations made in taxable years beginning on or after January 1, 2023

     

    In 2000, Massachusetts voters approved a state income tax deduction for qualifying charitable contributions.

    @csw43 

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